Sarah Braasch "Did anyone see that those crazies from the way of the master wrote a pro creation 50 page forward to the origin of the species and they are planning to distribute 50,000 copies on college campuses across the nation next month on the anniversary of the original publication?"
Yes. I once pondered whether Comfort is a scam artist or a true believer. I came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter.

"Ebon, that would be great to go through and discredit."
There have, and will continue to be, many great analyses of Ray's work in the comments section of his own website.

Explain that to me.

I see Sarah pointed out the conflation of "natural" with "moral" or "good."

For some reason, Sarah attempted to pin that conflation on me, when in fact I've not offered a definition or use for neither natural nor moral that would sustain her charges of conflation. It may be possible that she disliked me pointing out what you basically echoed here: that natural means "occurs in nature," not "anything anybody does" - which is all the more ironic after she accused believers of "usurping" language. Where I was wrong was that she actually does this in comment #36, not comment #12. My bad.

Hi Steve Bowen! I missed your comment the first time 'round. Come on by my place sometime, if you're not already lurking. In response to your response, all I was saying is that if somebody wanted to attempt to justify their definition of homosexuality as unnatural via appeal to the primary function of natural selection, they could attempt that case. That doesn't mean their case can't be challenged, or that I'm endorsing it.

And what the (insert appropriate expletive here) is "(heterosexual) masturbation" exactly?

If you're a chimera and your reproductive organs actually belong to the opposite sex twin you engulfed in the womb, that's heterosexual masturbation. It may also count as incest.

That's what I thought.

"Natural" means precisely, "occurs in nature."
"Unnatural" means precisely, "does not occur in nature."
Rape occurs in nature, therefore rape fits the definition of natural.
Celibacy - the lack of sexual partners - also occurs in nature, though not always as a matter of choice.
Mating for life, serial monogamy, and polyamorous behaviors all occur in nature, depending on where you look. So do homosexual acts, and I think I read at one point that some slime molds have thirteen genders (can't really look that one up from work, though). All of that stuff is therefore natural.
Pepsi does not occur in nature. It is unnatural. In fact, it's less natural than homosexuality.
Medical drugs such as amoxicillin, which are meted out in precise dosages for specific types of ailments, do not occur as such in nature and are therefore unnatural.

So what does any of this have to do with morality? Precisely nothing. I didn't get "unnatural is bad, The End" out of Ebon's post, I saw only "if unnatural is bad, then celibacy is just as bad as homosexuality; therefore, the church is full of the dumb." And then I also saw, "naturalistic arguments are poppycock," but I had to do a bit of paraphrasing to wind up with that.

@ Cuttlefish: That bit of poetry up in comment #1 was beautiful. I love Disney parodies!

Masturbation on the other hand makes you go blind :)

Wait, Which hand is the "other"!?!

And another thing- why is masturabtion wrong?

Nothing wrong with masturabtion at all, you can wakn and spakn the mokney all you want. Masturbation on the other hand makes you go blind :)

We can't dam up those floodwaters forever and expect nothing to come of it.

Touche...sorry, couldn't resist :))

You are still conflating the words natural and moral. They are not one and the same.

Human beings are natural. Our thought processes are natural. They are simply the result of our biological functions.

But, I'm out. I feel like this conversation has run its course.

Debate away.