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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Atheist Bigotry in the Daily News</title>
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	<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html</link>
	<description>NIGHTTIME IS FOR DREAMING. DAYLIGHT IS FOR ACTION.</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy (TRiG)</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51821</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy (TRiG)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51821</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There have been a whole bunch of opinion columns in the Australian newspapers recently, filled will jaw-dropping stupidity and hypocrisy. For example:

...

A plague of atheists has descended, and Catholics are the target&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Satirised beautifully (as always) in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jesusandmo.net/2009/11/06/beset/&quot; title=&quot;beset&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jesus and Mo&lt;/a&gt;.

TRiG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There have been a whole bunch of opinion columns in the Australian newspapers recently, filled will jaw-dropping stupidity and hypocrisy. For example:</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>A plague of atheists has descended, and Catholics are the target</p></blockquote>
<p>Satirised beautifully (as always) in <a href="http://www.jesusandmo.net/2009/11/06/beset/" title="beset" rel="nofollow">Jesus and Mo</a>.</p>
<p>TRiG.</p>
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		<title>By: OMGF</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51818</link>
		<dc:creator>OMGF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51818</guid>
		<description>Godless Randall,
Just because you feel that one example is more harsh than another, it doesn&#039;t mean that the &quot;gentler&quot; example is not also bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godless Randall,<br />
Just because you feel that one example is more harsh than another, it doesn't mean that the "gentler" example is not also bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Godless Randall</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51817</link>
		<dc:creator>Godless Randall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51817</guid>
		<description>Man, you guys call ^that^ bigotry? The man is obviously not a historian, maybe, but I guess I&#039;ve just seen way worse examples of bigotry. Hell, I&#039;m from the midwest, where it&#039;s ^their way or the highway,^ and that with signs along the highway saying as much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, you guys call ^that^ bigotry? The man is obviously not a historian, maybe, but I guess I've just seen way worse examples of bigotry. Hell, I'm from the midwest, where it's ^their way or the highway,^ and that with signs along the highway saying as much!</p>
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		<title>By: KShep</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51752</link>
		<dc:creator>KShep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51752</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I understand that Gillen&#039;s thesis isn&#039;t a blanket criticism of all atheists. But he still accused &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; atheist of lacking morality (I guess I should have made that distinction more clear), and that&#039;s what Adam reacted to. At least I think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I understand that Gillen's thesis isn't a blanket criticism of all atheists. But he still accused <i>one</i> atheist of lacking morality (I guess I should have made that distinction more clear), and that's what Adam reacted to. At least I think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex, FCD</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51747</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51747</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Alex, thanks for the clarification, but my point is still valid. Gillen did indeed accuse atheists of lacking morality...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I disagree.  What Gillen is saying, in the passage you quote, is that Singer has a moral code that would require him not to save his mother&#039;s life under certain circumstances*. &lt;i&gt;This is entirely true&lt;/i&gt;. According to Singer&#039;s moral ideas, if his mother decided, while competent to do so, that she would prefer not to live after her disease reached a certain stage, it would be immoral to continue to extend her life beyond that. Gillen criticized that stance (&lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; incompetently), but he certainly never accused all atheists of holding it.

The thesis of Gillen&#039;s column isn&#039;t that atheists lack morality, it&#039;s that atheists only act morally &lt;i&gt;when they&#039;re behaving like theists&lt;/i&gt;. That &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; bigoted, not to mention circular.

If anybody&#039;s interested, by the way, Singer gives a nice rundown of his views in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPtYA0u5m70&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this lecture&lt;/a&gt; at the Centre for Inquiry.

*He doesn&#039;t seem to understand what those circumstances &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt;, but never mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Alex, thanks for the clarification, but my point is still valid. Gillen did indeed accuse atheists of lacking morality...</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree.  What Gillen is saying, in the passage you quote, is that Singer has a moral code that would require him not to save his mother's life under certain circumstances*. <i>This is entirely true</i>. According to Singer's moral ideas, if his mother decided, while competent to do so, that she would prefer not to live after her disease reached a certain stage, it would be immoral to continue to extend her life beyond that. Gillen criticized that stance (<i>really</i> incompetently), but he certainly never accused all atheists of holding it.</p>
<p>The thesis of Gillen's column isn't that atheists lack morality, it's that atheists only act morally <i>when they're behaving like theists</i>. That <i>is</i> bigoted, not to mention circular.</p>
<p>If anybody's interested, by the way, Singer gives a nice rundown of his views in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPtYA0u5m70" rel="nofollow">this lecture</a> at the Centre for Inquiry.</p>
<p>*He doesn't seem to understand what those circumstances <i>are</i>, but never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: KShep</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51722</link>
		<dc:creator>KShep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 11:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51722</guid>
		<description>Alex, thanks for the clarification, but my point is still valid. Gillen did indeed accuse atheists of lacking morality, which is obvious from the complete quote, which I left out because I didn&#039;t think it relevant:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Let me explain: he went against his own moral code, which in this case would have required him not to help his mother &lt;b&gt;because it is more logical to help others with a better probability of surviving.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;re right, though---you wouldn&#039;t have known from Gillen&#039;s article about the entirety of Singer&#039;s true predicament. How convenient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, thanks for the clarification, but my point is still valid. Gillen did indeed accuse atheists of lacking morality, which is obvious from the complete quote, which I left out because I didn't think it relevant:</p>
<blockquote><p>Let me explain: he went against his own moral code, which in this case would have required him not to help his mother <b>because it is more logical to help others with a better probability of surviving.</b></p></blockquote>
<p>You're right, though---you wouldn't have known from Gillen's article about the entirety of Singer's true predicament. How convenient.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex, FCD</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51716</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex, FCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51716</guid>
		<description>KShep:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Gillen is saying Singer has a &quot;moral code&quot; that would &quot;require him not to help his mother.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;Singer is a proponent of euthanasia, and his mother has apparently stated that she would prefer not to continue living if her Alzheimer&#039;s disease reached a certain point, which it has.  As I understand it, the complaint is that Singer is being inconsistent by not giving his consent to stop life-prolonging treatment for her, at least according to the article that Modus linked above (although &lt;a href=&quot;http://reason.com/archives/2000/12/01/the-pursuit-of-happiness-peter/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; suggests that he would prefer to withdraw care but his sister would not). 

Not that you would learn any of this from Giller&#039;s article.  He makes it sound like Singer is a medical doctor who failed to triage properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KShep:</p>
<blockquote><p>Gillen is saying Singer has a "moral code" that would "require him not to help his mother." </p></blockquote>
<p>Singer is a proponent of euthanasia, and his mother has apparently stated that she would prefer not to continue living if her Alzheimer's disease reached a certain point, which it has.  As I understand it, the complaint is that Singer is being inconsistent by not giving his consent to stop life-prolonging treatment for her, at least according to the article that Modus linked above (although <a href="http://reason.com/archives/2000/12/01/the-pursuit-of-happiness-peter/" rel="nofollow">this article</a> suggests that he would prefer to withdraw care but his sister would not). </p>
<p>Not that you would learn any of this from Giller's article.  He makes it sound like Singer is a medical doctor who failed to triage properly.</p>
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		<title>By: KShep</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51714</link>
		<dc:creator>KShep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51714</guid>
		<description>cl:

&lt;blockquote&gt;HE DIDN&#039;T ACCUSE ATHEISTS OF LACKING MORAL VALUES&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Learn to read. Here&#039;s Gillen&#039;s actual words, quoted by you:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Let me explain: &lt;b&gt;he went against his own moral code,&lt;/b&gt; which in this case would have required him not to help his mother...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Gillen is saying Singer has a &quot;moral code&quot; that would &quot;require him not to help his mother.&quot; 

And Gillen &lt;i&gt;didn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; accuse atheists of lacking moral values?

Pay attention, man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cl:</p>
<blockquote><p>HE DIDN'T ACCUSE ATHEISTS OF LACKING MORAL VALUES</p></blockquote>
<p>Learn to read. Here's Gillen's actual words, quoted by you:</p>
<blockquote><p>Let me explain: <b>he went against his own moral code,</b> which in this case would have required him not to help his mother...</p></blockquote>
<p>Gillen is saying Singer has a "moral code" that would "require him not to help his mother." </p>
<p>And Gillen <i>didn't</i> accuse atheists of lacking moral values?</p>
<p>Pay attention, man!</p>
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		<title>By: NEWS FLASH &#8211; Catholic Clergy Member Dislikes Atheists &#171; Blogging with Badger</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51709</link>
		<dc:creator>NEWS FLASH &#8211; Catholic Clergy Member Dislikes Atheists &#171; Blogging with Badger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51709</guid>
		<description>[...] a putz this guy is. For another good refutation of this nonsense, check this article here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Neither Are We &#8220;Sheep&#8221;Atonement to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a putz this guy is. For another good refutation of this nonsense, check this article here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Neither Are We &ldquo;Sheep&rdquo;Atonement to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 2-D Man</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51706</link>
		<dc:creator>2-D Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51706</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The cardinal warned for “the ideologically-inclined &lt;b&gt;biophysicists, neuroscientists an evolutionists” who try to persuade people&lt;/b&gt; “that there is no God, and consequently &lt;b&gt;there is no truth or falsehood...&lt;/b&gt;&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m sure we can all agree that scientists never say, &#039;That isn&#039;t true.&#039;

On a more serious note, maybe I can get this bishop to talk to my profs, informing them of what they&#039;re supposed to say. It&#039;d free up a fair bit of my time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The cardinal warned for “the ideologically-inclined <b>biophysicists, neuroscientists an evolutionists” who try to persuade people</b> “that there is no God, and consequently <b>there is no truth or falsehood...</b>"
</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm sure we can all agree that scientists never say, 'That isn't true.'</p>
<p>On a more serious note, maybe I can get this bishop to talk to my profs, informing them of what they're supposed to say. It'd free up a fair bit of my time.</p>
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		<title>By: Twitter Trackbacks for Daylight Atheism &#62; Anti-Atheist Bigotry in the Daily News [daylightatheism.org] on Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51705</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Trackbacks for Daylight Atheism &#62; Anti-Atheist Bigotry in the Daily News [daylightatheism.org] on Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51705</guid>
		<description>[...] Daylight Atheism &gt; Anti-Atheist Bigotry in the Daily News  www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html &#8211; view page &#8211; cached  Freethought in the light of the sun - a blog on atheism, science, philosophy, current events and the hypocrisy of the religious right. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Daylight Atheism &gt; Anti-Atheist Bigotry in the Daily News  <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html</a> &ndash; view page &ndash; cached  Freethought in the light of the sun - a blog on atheism, science, philosophy, current events and the hypocrisy of the religious right. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Boudica</title>
		<link>http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/11/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-the-daily-news.html#comment-51703</link>
		<dc:creator>Boudica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daylightatheism.org/?p=1187#comment-51703</guid>
		<description>How about using the example of Pat Tillman instead of Singer? Stories abound of his dedication to the military, his fellow soldiers and the war even after he lost his belief in its purpose. And he was an atheist in a foxhole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about using the example of Pat Tillman instead of Singer? Stories abound of his dedication to the military, his fellow soldiers and the war even after he lost his belief in its purpose. And he was an atheist in a foxhole.</p>
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