Welcome! Glad you came across this site, and it's good to hear you're on the path to reason. From what I've heard, there are many African cultures where the pressure to believe in the supernatural is very strong. My advice would be to do as much reading as you can; there's a lot of excellent pro-science, pro-critical-thinking, pro-skepticism material freely available on the internet. The more you learn, I think, the easier you'll find it to dismiss the supernatural and other superstitious beliefs.

Jesus also lied. "Whatever you ask in my name shall be given you"

But of course these words were written by story tellers from ancient

myths.

Isn’t it about time we recognized that getting down on your knees and muttering platitudes to
the invisible daddy in the sky doesn’t change anything.

Unless you're an omniquantist ;^)

See http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1400/fc01386.htm
& the next few entries in the series.

I don't know that it says in the bible that God answers -any- prayer.

Actually, it does. For example, Matthew 21:22 says, "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." I can't imagine a clearer and more specific promise than that.

It says He will answer the desires of your heart, which is often different than the desires of your mind or the desires of your body.

I know of no such verse in the Bible. Can you give a citation? Which book and chapter says this?

You talk about possible outcomes and etc. which is completely futile. Prayer and faith are incompatible with the scientific method.

rguinn, the scientific method is nothing but a formal method of testing whether a claim is true. Any factual claim about the way our world works can be checked using the scientific method. And whether God exists, and whether he answers prayers, are most definitely factual claims.

For instance, we might run an experiment in which two groups of religious believers of different faiths each pray for some measurable outcome, and we see if either group's prayers are answered more frequently than we would expect from chance. That would be a perfectly good application of the scientific method. If you say this experiment wouldn't work, are you therefore claiming that God answers the prayers of non-Christians just as often as he answers the prayers of Christians?

The problem is that my experience means nothing to you. It holds no weight in your mind because it was entirely specific to me. The only other people who can relate are those who have experienced the same thing. Does that make sense?

That is a very good point, and I agree; the subjective experiences of one person cannot count as evidence to another. But wouldn't you agree, then, that an atheist who's had no such experiences - me, for example - is logically justified in not believing in God?

Christians believe that God is beyond time and space. If that is the case, He already knows how you will answer and what you will pray for. Since this is the case, God knows the outcome of a situation, and will freely give you what you do not want if it is better for you.

You have nailed one of the key reasons why the omni-everything god is logically impossible. If God knows what will happen in the future, He can't do anything that will change the future. If He could, He would have been wrong about what He "knew" earlier. If, as you say, the future must inevitably unfold the way God knows it will, then there's no prayer that will persuade Him to make it any different (despite how it might seem to you, if you think your prayers are often answered "no"). But if on the other hand, God can change the future, then He must not have known what the future would be.

So a god that is omniscient cannot be omnipotent. A god that is omnipotent cannot be omniscient. You have to choose between a god with limited powers, or a universe with no god at all. Which choice is supported by the evidence?

[Credit where it is due: I found this argument on the Iron Chariots Wiki, http://wiki.ironchariots.org.

May all the people of the world come to realise there is probably no God

I doubt it will get read out, but as there is probably no God to answer it I'm not too bothered. On the other hand if it is read out and God answers it, I will have a real dilemma.

The difficulty I see here is that your treatment of prayer is overly scientific. You talk about possible outcomes and etc. which is completely futile. Prayer and faith are incompatible with the scientific method.

If God is real, and prayer is real, and if they have real effects in the real world, then they can be studied scientifically. If they're not real in this sense, what word would you use? We use "imaginary". We don't mean to be insulting -- imagination is a wonderful thing, possibly one of the few faculties which set us apart from the other animals; in other words, it makes us human. But let's be clear about whether we honestly believe and expect prayer to affect the real world.

My argument was simply that prayer is always answered, but you don't necessarily get the answer you want.

And, whenever I shoot arrows, they always hit the bulls-eye. Of course, I simply shoot the arrows wherever, go and find them, and then paint a bulls-eye around the arrow...

If you agree with me for a second (which you won't) that a correct understanding of the bible would bring one to the conclusion that God gives us what we need, and not necessarily what we want, it is not surprising that people get excited and spread the word when God answers in the affirmative. For one, that means the person praying was on the right track. He can say, "I must be growing closer to God if I am praying for the thing He is about to give me."

Then, perhaps you could explain why children die when parents are praying for them to get better? I suppose god simply killed the child so that the parents could learn a lesson or something? Wow, what an awesomely good god that is. (Sorry, there is some snark there.)

I don't know that it says in the bible that God answers -any- prayer. It says He will answer the desires of your heart, which is often different than the desires of your mind or the desires of your body. Furthermore, it is shown in Job, one of the oldest books, that He essentially has veto power when it comes to what we ask for. God knows what we need much better than we do.

The difficulty I see here is that your treatment of prayer is overly scientific. You talk about possible outcomes and etc. which is completely futile. Prayer and faith are incompatible with the scientific method. We can't prove scientifically that there is or is not a God any more than you can prove that "Supernaturalism and superstition have never done anything more than harm us, turn us against each other and hold us back."

If faith could be tested scientifically then it would not be faith. My argument was simply that prayer is always answered, but you don't necessarily get the answer you want.

If you agree with me for a second (which you won't) that a correct understanding of the bible would bring one to the conclusion that God gives us what we need, and not necessarily what we want, it is not surprising that people get excited and spread the word when God answers in the affirmative. For one, that means the person praying was on the right track. He can say, "I must be growing closer to God if I am praying for the thing He is about to give me."

Perhaps the issue atheists get hung up on here is, "does praying make any difference at all?" That really depends on how you look at it. Christians believe that God is beyond time and space. If that is the case, He already knows how you will answer and what you will pray for. Since this is the case, God knows the outcome of a situation, and will freely give you what you do not want if it is better for you.

These issues, for christians, take a lifetime to truly understand all the facets for. I have a lot of learning still to do and I've been reading the Bible for decades. Perhaps that's why in my eyes God is quite distinguished from other gods.

@Peter N- My immediate response to your last statement would be that I have heard God talk. For me, that distinguishes Him rather quickly. For me, such an event, even if it never happens again, solidified my faith in Him and cast away all doubt. The problem is that my experience means nothing to you. It holds no weight in your mind because it was entirely specific to me. The only other people who can relate are those who have experienced the same thing. Does that make sense? Our opinions can not be reconciled because what means everything to me means nothing to you. My experience makes me closed-minded and stubborn on the issue because I can't ignore what happened. I wish there were a way to make you understand it, but the only way would be for you to experience the same thing, which I have no control over. I hope that makes sense.